Illegal immigration

[Derek L. Nielsen]

What do the members here feel about the next big battle, immigration reform? I have attached a document as reference to hear some thoughts.

[sean higgins]

What I find fascinating about this discussion is that the rule of law is recognized by all as not being enforced and yet the cause is not discussed.There is the obvious negative, "liberal" media support for the pro-immigration position.But there is also the sad reality that big business, as opposed to the more important small business,has an interest in having a cheap, mutable labor force.That is not just a function of greed, although one cannot ignore the direct financial impact on the bottom line, but also a function of social policy-I mean social policy effecting each of us. Recognizing that the average weekly wage has not increased in buying power for the average person since THE 70s, caused at least in part by globalization(our manufacturing jobs gone to China and the third world), it's clearly in the interests of societal quietude that certain fundamental needs be delivered at a reasonable rate; e.g. gas prices far below market value vis a vis the rest of the world;food at an affordable cost.This results from illegal immigration-the immigrants work the skank jobs, picking food, working in slaughter houses, working low level manufacturing jobs- all of which keeps basics affordable, people placated. It's not a conspiracy if everyone acquiesces.All you need is the PTA to pick up the banner and the argument is won.Reagan and Bush supported amnesty.There's more than meets the eye.

[Derek L. Nielsen]

Reagan supported amnesty on the premise that the laws would be enforced and the border secure going forward. Neither of which happened which brings us back to where we are now. If someones first act upone entering our border is that of a crime it sets a presedent that the laws of this place do not matter. Look how many illegal immigrants are crowding our prison systems. Another example is an incedent while we were living in California where and illegal immigrant killed a prominant family in a DUI accident. It was his fourth DUI without a drivers license. I say again, we can not let compassion trump the rule of law. There are many examples where blind eyes can be turned to crimes out of compassion but that greatly weakens our society. Take for example a crack addict who commits an armed robbery to get money for drugs; the libs would say it was the drugs it is not his fault. Like you mentioned the overshadowing societal issue is that there is no longer any responsibility taken for ones actions. It is always someone else or something elses fault. On the "jobs Americans won't do" front, I know there are plenty of people that would do these jobs if they were not below minimum wage and paid decently. Yes that may eqaul another 25 cents for a head of lettuce, but a quarter most Americans would gladly pay to help curb illegal immigration. It is the intangable costs that cost us far more than an increase in the cost of goods would.

sean higgins said:

What I find fascinating about this discussion is that the rule of law is recognized by all as not being enforced and yet the cause is not discussed.There is the obvious negative, "liberal" media support for the pro-immigration position.But there is also the sad reality that big business, as opposed to the more important small business,has an interest in having a cheap, mutable labor force.That is not just a function of greed, although one cannot ignore the direct financial impact on the bottom line, but also a function of social policy-I mean social policy effecting each of us. Recognizing that the average weekly wage has not increased in buying power for the average person since THE 70s, caused at least in part by globalization(our manufacturing jobs gone to China and the third world), it's clearly in the interests of societal quietude that certain fundamental needs be delivered at a reasonable rate; e.g. gas prices far below market value vis a vis the rest of the world;food at an affordable cost.This results from illegal immigration-the immigrants work the skank jobs, picking food, working in slaughter houses, working low level manufacturing jobs- all of which keeps basics affordable, people placated. It's not a conspiracy if everyone acquiesces.All you need is the PTA to pick up the banner and the argument is won.Reagan and Bush supported amnesty.There's more than meets the eye.

[Ali]

I cannot agree more that I too know plenty of Americans that would take these jobs that they are saying "NO one else would do them". think that line has been way over used especially in an economy like ours right now where there are so many people without work. It is so hard to get a job these days and many would be grateful to just have A JOB. I also think that Americans would glady pay the extra to get rid of the "illegal" crime going on here not only taking jobs away from them but having this action happen in America. It is called Illegal for a reason. There are so may decent people trying to come through the front door that have to go through ALOT to get here and yet these people just ARE here.

Also, they just said that they are going to provide more people to watch the Canadian border. That is great and all.....BUT... they are removing people from the Texas/Mexican Borders. I cannot find one bit of sense in that at all. How can they say that want to make things legal yet make it easier for things to become more illegal. I think the Democrats need to be sat down and told the basics about that their ACTIONS speak louder than their words.
Derek L. Nielsen said:

Reagan supported amnesty on the premise that the laws would be enforced and the border secure going forward. Neither of which happened which brings us back to where we are now. If someones first act upone entering our border is that of a crime it sets a presedent that the laws of this place do not matter. Look how many illegal immigrants are crowding our prison systems. Another example is an incedent while we were living in California where and illegal immigrant killed a prominant family in a DUI accident. It was his fourth DUI without a drivers license. I say again, we can not let compassion trump the rule of law. There are many examples where blind eyes can be turned to crimes out of compassion but that greatly weakens our society. Take for example a crack addict who commits an armed robbery to get money for drugs; the libs would say it was the drugs it is not his fault. Like you mentioned the overshadowing societal issue is that there is no longer any responsibility taken for ones actions. It is always someone else or something elses fault. On the "jobs Americans won't do" front, I know there are plenty of people that would do these jobs if they were not below minimum wage and paid decently. Yes that may eqaul another 25 cents for a head of lettuce, but a quarter most Americans would gladly pay to help curb illegal immigration. It is the intangable costs that cost us far more than an increase in the cost of goods would.

sean higgins said:

What I find fascinating about this discussion is that the rule of law is recognized by all as not being enforced and yet the cause is not discussed.There is the obvious negative, "liberal" media support for the pro-immigration position.But there is also the sad reality that big business, as opposed to the more important small business,has an interest in having a cheap, mutable labor force.That is not just a function of greed, although one cannot ignore the direct financial impact on the bottom line, but also a function of social policy-I mean social policy effecting each of us. Recognizing that the average weekly wage has not increased in buying power for the average person since THE 70s, caused at least in part by globalization(our manufacturing jobs gone to China and the third world), it's clearly in the interests of societal quietude that certain fundamental needs be delivered at a reasonable rate; e.g. gas prices far below market value vis a vis the rest of the world;food at an affordable cost.This results from illegal immigration-the immigrants work the skank jobs, picking food, working in slaughter houses, working low level manufacturing jobs- all of which keeps basics affordable, people placated. It's not a conspiracy if everyone acquiesces.All you need is the PTA to pick up the banner and the argument is won.Reagan and Bush supported amnesty.There's more than meets the eye.

[1stRichard]

This from CNN

http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv

The reaction from most on the conservative side, it is no longer a question if we going to have civil war but when and I would have to agree. Simply put we cannot allow another or afford another Nancy Pelosi lap dog be elected. My own perspective on immigration here in MA can be found here…

http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/the-american-dream

[sean higgins]

Richard-Thanks for the update.I have to admit some of this stuff is new to me.I'd note that Dobb's story is initially disturbing, but fails to point out that the legislation referred to is not up for a vote. I would assume it is but another foolish bill that will face many revisions. The reporter, Dobbs, has a long history of reporting stories that are half-baked and incomplete. With that said, the fact is that some nut legislator(s) is out there pushing these sorry ideas and where there is one there is usually an ant hill.Thanks again Richard

[Bonnie S Greenberg]

Just putting one foot in the country is breaking a federal law...why should we have to support criminals...why should criminals not be prosecuted after they have comitted crimes...wouldn't we be punished if we had, raped, robbed or murdered?...amnesty cities?...I think not..
Given the resources we can stop this invasion to our country...
"Good fences make good neighbors"...

[Bonnie S Greenberg]

We have to take care of America first...how will illegal immigrants be a stimulant when we will have more people on welfare, eduction, when we do not have the funds for our chidren, spending more for medical treatment, and unfortunately, spending more funds and time by law enforcement agencies...
Whether or not Mr Reagan or Mr Bush touted amnesty for illegal immiration is beside the point...times have changes, there's more crime and less money...we have to take care of today, we have to take care of America first...

[Derek L. Nielsen]

As is the case with Guantanomo Bay, but the libs still want to bring the America Hating terrorists here to our U.S soil!

Bonnie S Greenberg said:

Just putting one foot in the country is breaking a federal law...why should we have to support criminals...why should criminals not be prosecuted after they have comitted crimes...wouldn't we be punished if we had, raped, robbed or murdered?...amnesty cities?...I think not..
Given the resources we can stop this invasion to our country...
"Good fences make good neighbors"...

[Joan]

If the Governor has to lay off State workers because the government is broke then how does the State plan to pay for the healthcare of illegal immigrants?
Did anyone hear about the poll done in Mexico regarding coming across the US border if amnesty is voted in? The result of the poll was that they would come here if amnesty was voted in. If amnesty was not voted in then they would not come here. So the solution is to not vote for amnesty. We allowed amnesty in 1986 and it did not work. It is time we learned from our HISTORY. It is time that we enforced the laws that are on the books. And secure our border. To allow amnesty to the people that came here illegally is a slap in the face to those immigrants who followed our laws and waited a long time to be admitted to the United States. They are the people we should be rewarding.

[S. P. Silva]

I just would like to echo the statement of Derek L. Nielsen dated Oct. 10 @ 8:01 am. It has always been my belief that the first act committed by people who have crossed our borders illegally was that they have broken the law. In my opinion that means they have no respect for our laws and will continue to violate and break them.
The other issue is the people from all over the world who visit our country on tourist visas and allow them to expire and never leave or report their departure to authorities. This inability to track foreign nationals who come here legally but never leave is a real and current danger to our safety. it is also a testament to the fact that the Homeland Security Administration (ICE, TSA et. al) is just another big government program that is unable to secure our borders and ports as well as keep our skies safe to fly in.
This article posted in the NY TImes about the 19 year old Jordanian that was here on a tourist visa that had expired and was plotting to blow up a Dallas skyscaper. 2.9 million people came to our country in 2008 on tourist visas and either never left or our government has no idea how they left or where they are now. How dangerous is that? Here is the link the the NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/us/12visa.html
I find it appalling as I'm asked to shell out $10.00 extra every time I fly knowing I am no safer as the cargo packages in the baggage hold of the plane are not being screened at all, yet I am almost getting a full cavity search of myself and my belongings.

[Derek L. Nielsen]

From the L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages...
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9.. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens .

[Ali]

All of this angers me so deeply. We have a government in which just lost 2.9 people? Then they cannot or will not even display the same laws that are there for an average citizen as for an illegal. Coming here illegaly is just that. ILLEGAL! Allowing them to stay means the goverment cannot or will not follow the laws either. Why do I see this as only getting worse. The numbers from L.A are ludicrous. I would be interested to know the entire country's statisitics.